My Medical Device Sales Career
Getting a DUI; Does it Kill a Sales Career or Getting into Outside Sales?
Actual email sent to me last week for the Ask Linda Forum: all identity has been removed.
Hi Linda,
I hope this email finds you well. I was given your contact information by my resume writer/career counselor. We just spent the last hour or so on the phone and she suggested I ask you a question that she was unable to answer with certainty.
I am in the process of trying to get into medical/device sales and she said you have extensive experience in the industry. After discussing my background and prospective chance of landing a position (which she said is very do able), she did inquire about my driving record. I recently pled no contest to a DUI (I am unable to fight case because I am moving within 1 month, so I plead within 2 weeks of actual pull over) as soon as possible after the actual occurrence (it is my first and will be my only DUI!). My career counselor had thought that there is no way for me to break into the field with this on my record and she suggested I ask you to see if there were any possibilities for me as you may know what different companies might consider. I understand the liability and know this can be a major deterrent in the application process, but are there companies or positions that this would not limit me from? I am a small business owner and I have a clinical background degree that is very desirable in the medical sales industry, but I have a huge desire to achieve a sales position. Is this out of my reach due to this being on my record?
I do appreciate you taking the time to read this email and would very much appreciate any response you may have. I look forward to your response.
Sincerely,
Heartbroken Job Seeker, with a DUI, trying to get some answers
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Linda Hertz on
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Dear Heartbroken DUI,
I must tell you that I have handled the question of a DUI and it's impact on one's career from many different perspectives, although fortunately not as a recipient of one! My perspective comes from being a Medical Sales Hiring Manager trying to hire someone with a DUI, a Recruiter trying to place someone with a DUI and a close friend receiving one 2 years ago in the state of CA and lastly my eldest daughter getting hit by a drunk driver and her car thrown under the 405 bridge near LAX airport while returning from college 4 years ago. The last event was scary and yes the driver was so drunk he could barely get out the car with police assist. By the way, my daughter and her girlfriend were ok, but my daughter still has back problems from the injury (they were stopped at a light and he barreled through them at full speed with no breaking).
I always understood the devastation a DUI creates on one's career and certainly the limitations is creates on trying to switch careers, but getting the call that early evening from the scene of my daughter accident was another perspective. Just when I thought I made up my opinion on the whole DUI matter I watched my friend attend court hearings, penalties, roadwork just because he had 2 glasses of wine at dinner! So I think what appears to be missing from this very varied perspective that I now have, is that it appears we treat the 2 glasses of wine person the same as the person who is severely drunk and driving and certainly when it comes to getting a job that involves the use of a car for a living.
As my friend attended the aftermath DUI classes I was appalled at the detail of what he can't do now as it relates to CA state law and even other countries. He was even informed in class that he can NEVER enter Canada or Switzerland due to their countries rules! I know this goes beyond the scope of answering this question, but it may be interesting for others to see how it can change the scope of one's life thereafter. It is enough that even though I know I am at risk in CA drinking one glass of wine at dinner and getting behind the wheel, that is ALL I will drink now..period. If I were still employed in corporate world, I have learned from my friends experience and have NO DRINKS at dinner if it involved driving afterwards. It is not worth it. Sorry, I digress Heartbroken, but if your experience and question prevents someone else from going through this pain then the question will be a blessing to others!
Now to the heart of the matter, personally in EVERY situation I have encountered as Sales Manager for 17 years and an outside recruiter for 6 years with major Medical Device Contracts I have NEVER been able to get a person with a DUI an outside sales position.
In fact, I found a GREAT resume from a woman who was about 28 years old living in Southern California and was in one job since college working for Enterprise Rental Car. I found her old resume posted on a job board; I called her right away. She informed me she was still at Enterprise Rental Car, I asked her, "What in the world are you still doing working in THAT job since college?". She replied in a matter of fact voice, "I need to be up front, I am heartbroken over this (yes she used that word), I went out the night before I had to fly to a business meeting for our company and had too much to drink and I got a DUI the next day on the way to the airport". I was like, WHAT? You were drinking the night BEFORE the meeting and got a ticket the next day? She said, "Yes, I am very small, about 5'3" and around 105 lbs. I drank the night before around midnight, went to bed, got up, showered, had coffee and then got stopped on the way to the airport around 6:30 am in the morning and stopped her for speeding". She also went on to tell me that she has left the old resume on a Major Job Board thinking one of the outside sales jobs would still hire her; the DUI happened 3 years before and not one company would let her proceed to the interview. THAT shook me up, a young woman who could not continue with the career she wanted and literally stuck at Enterprise Rental car.
At that time I told her to UNSTICK herself from Enterprise and look at other career options; train up to be an Accountant, yes you can be an Attorney I understand and get a job with a DUI, you can be a teacher or a professor BUT difficult getting a job that involved the use of an automobile and driving as part of the job responsibility. I am sure it has something to do with Insurance risk for the deep pockets of a large company.
Lastly Heartbroken, I have put this question out to 40 Groups on Linkedin to get the response from others in our industry to see what their response may be. I know this is not great news and you need to look at the laws in the state you reside in to see how they handle DUI's and employment. I understand there is a way to expunge a DUI off one's record after a period of time, but I will tell you that they always seem to appear on the employee background checks when my former company would hire a third party agency to do the check.
Let's see what others say. When there is a will there is a way and perhaps that way is with a small DME firm or smaller company that is willing to take the risk; most fortune 500 companies just don't want to deal with it when they can hire top talent that does not have a DUI.
Sincerely,
Linda Hertz
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Tom Dadisman 2nd
(contractor) on-site Manager for technology team at Covidien
Location
Greater Denver Area
Industry
Medical Devices
Overview
This is a most interesting topic. In the field of medical device sales all three companies I have worked for recently have considered a DUI as reason to NOT hire. I think this is primarily due to insurance company needs. I have also noted that a few friends in the aerospace industry tell me a single DUI jeopardizes any sort of DOD clearance one might have.
In the state of Colorado the DUI limit is .08 for DUI, Colorado also has DWAI which is defined as .05-.07. The penalties are strict…1st DUI offense Jail – From 5 Days to 1 Year, Fine - From $600 - $1,000, License Suspension – 9 Months, License Points – 12 Public Service – From 48 to 96 Hours, Jail May be Suspended in Lieu of Alcohol Treatment Program. DWAI penalties are also strict. However it should be noted that based on standard calculations a 125lb woman would need to consume 3 beers over a 2 hour period to be DUI, a 180lb man closer to 4-5 beers! It is the best advice to not drink and drive or have a two drink maximum over at least a one hour period and nearly anyone will be under DUI/DWAI limits! However if you can pound a beer or two in 30 minutes and you weigh 125 lbs you will be over-the-limit!
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Byrd on
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I found this topic interesting as well - one I can't relate to, but felt compelled to revisit several days after reading it. It is difficult to accept that one indiscretion (I'm assuming) could be the sum value of a person. Interesting that you point out other professions allow grace to override judgement/risk management. Npr radio ran a story a few weeks ago that might be worth listening to. It's a discussion on David DeSteno's book Out of Character. People are fluid and unpredictable as revealed most recently in several political stories of men who were seen as otherwise having impeccable character.
I'm heartbroken for him/her.....and agree that UNSTICKING oneself from prejudged limitations is the place to focus!
kelly
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Tim Sweatt • I think this person is probably going to have a lot of difficulty getting a job in medical sales for at least three years. A company's corporate policies are in place for two reasons - 1) protection against potential litigation 2) to eliminate situations in which people actually have to reason and think through "judgement" calls. Unfortunately, this does not allow for looking into ther circumstances of a DUI. If a hiring manager wants to hire someone with a recent DUI, that manager is going to have to justify it to his/her manager, knowing that most likely there are other reasonable candidates who do not have this baggage. That's very hard to do. A person with a DUI will have the best chance in a very small company which is willing to make a judgement call.
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Brigette Orsborn • I had thought so too, but I found that is not always the case. Companies have specific policies such as no DUIs in the prior five years. That establishes the minimum threshold but a hiring manage may hold a higher standard and may not consider an individual no matter how long ago the DUI occured. A sobriety test refusal is often considered the same as a DUI.
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Michael Young • 2 duis?
http://www.linkedin.com/miniprofile?vieweeID=20221302&context=a...">
Richard Speight • I think the second strongly suggests the individual didn't learn from the first.
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Michael Young • Well the License is valid and yeah it took my 2 kicks to learn it but its a lessoned learned very hard that i truely regret.... theres no excuses like what was said but if im honest do i still have a shot as long as i am just using the "car allowance and not the company car" trust my im a truly gifted salesman
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Theresa LLamas • Will a DWI hurt my chances of being hired into medical?
It used to be if you have a DWI on your record you were toast. However sometimes (extremely rarely) exceptions are made on a case-by-case basis. There is no way of predicting if they will make an exception in your case. There are instances where people who got DWI's in their teens and have clean records for many years have got hired. Occasionally, one of the smaller companies will tolerate a DWI for an outstanding candidate because they do not provide cars for their field force and feel like their liability is limited.
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Sandra I Riddick • I think a DUI or if you have a lot of points on your driving license will hurt you in securing a job these days. My reasons for expressing my opinion are because this shows a reflections on how responsible you are and whether you have a criminal record.
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Laurie Roeder • I disagree, things happen and you can't take them back. If you know your profession and you do well, it should not matter if you did have a dui, of course if you had one doing working hours that would be a problem. But if you are good at what you do, and your track record at work is good this should not hinder you from getting that job. On the other hand I think I would not hire a person with a criminal background of thief. I agree with Theresa it would depend on a case by case period.
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Masha Paschal • I believe in the age when some dubious comments posted on the web can cause you not to get a job and in some instances (though few) actually cause you to lose a job a serious affair like DUI will definitely have a negative impact on a person’s ability to land a good job.
When applying for a job a lot of times a person is required to answer several questions including one about his/her criminal record. If you have DUI - your answer would be YES. Such statement as “I have a criminal record” will considerably cut down on your chances to even get a job interview. After all with current unemployment rate employers do not need to consider potential candidates who from the very start have “red flag” on their application!
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I was involved with hiring & training salespeople with my form...
Ken Hallett, Jr. • Hello Linda,
I was involved with hiring & training salespeople with my former company. In the hiring process we would let them know that if they were being considered they would need to provide us with a motor vehicle report. Our company’s auto insurance said we should not hire anyone with a DUI within 5 years due to liability reasons. If they had a DUI that was older than 5 years we could.
Hope this helps.
Ken
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From a risk management standpoint, there's no way I'd allow a rece...
Whitson Morgan • Linda, I'll take a stab at this from two viewpoints:
From a risk management standpoint, there's no way I'd allow a recent DUI to be hired in a field position that required driving for work purposes or driving a company vehicle. It is a liability that is intolerable, in my opinion, and in the opinion of literally every medical (and non-medical) company I've worked for in positions that required driving a company vehicle or driving for purposes other than commuting to and from the office.
From a cost standpoint, a company would be looking at several thousand dollars a year higher insurance costs, in addition to the liability discussed above. There's a good possibility the company's general liability umbrella would specifically disallow this sort of hiring (again, if driving is involved), and if it was not specifically prohibited, the cost of adding that individual to the corporate insurance policy would be literally six to ten times the cost of adding a non-DUI driver.
So, from a risk standpoint, I'm in trouble. If the driver has any accidents involving DUI I as the company am now "culpable" beyond the immediate risk of the accident because I knew of the prior incident, and thus accepted the "known risk" of this type of behavior. And, even if there are no accidents, I'm spending $10-15k more annually to insure this employee driving company vehicles. Why not just use the extra cash to buy the next level up in terms of performance and quality of work?
The point is, best-case the company is going to lose money in this deal. No matter what. Either on the front end or both ends. And losing money isn't what companies purposefully do.
It's got nothing to do with fairness or with how good an employee you might be. Nor does it have anything to do with things happening that can't be taken back, with all due respect to Laurie. It's risk-reward, and in this case, it's all negative, regardless.
Now, I will couch my remarks with the condition that a prior DUI that would not affect your personal auto insurance rates, will likely not affect your job prospects, either. That's the line I believe companies use, and it makes sense. If I don't pay a penalty to hire the person, and I can say the risk is low based on the time elapsed since the infraction, I can get a positive ROI on hiring the person, and the choice then comes down to the best candidate for the position.
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Richard Speight • I am a medical diagnostics recruiter and face this issue from time to time. And it most often comes down to who provides the liability insurance? If it's the company with a company car, extremely difficult. Car allowance and the rep covers everything, not so much so. As long as it's not part of a pattern, a DUI is not necessarily a career killer. Just something you'll have to explain for a long time. Hope this helps.